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@B-Kirill B-Kirill commented May 4, 2025

About the PR

Adds a welding function to an energy sword and similar weapons

Weapon Speed modifier
Welding tool 1
Energy pen 0.8
Energy dagger 0.7
Energy sword 0.5
Energy cutlass 0.4
Double-bladed energy sword 0.4

Why / Balance

It is quite logical that a weapon with such a high temperature can weld metal. To prevent this from being unbalanced, the welding speed for each type of weapon has been changed. By the way, it still requires eye protection.

It even has a logical rationale:

  • Energy dagger - small, low-power (compared to other types), ideal for welding, although it requires a little care.
  • Energy sword - not very good for welding, the length of the weapon gets in the way a little, and you need to control the force so that you don't just burn through the metal.
  • Energy cutlass - like an energy sword, however, it has an uneven blade, which also interferes with welding.

Media

image

Requirements

Changelog
🆑 B_Kirill

  • add: Some melee energy weapons can now work like welding tool.

@github-actions github-actions bot added S: Untriaged Status: Indicates an item has not been triaged and doesn't have appropriate labels. size/M Denotes a PR that changes 100-999 lines. labels May 4, 2025
@Cojoke-dot
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  1. It's really powerful, infinite repair on nukie Borgs and the ability to seal off airlocks from sec while still being a powerful weapon
  2. Logically have you ever tried to weld with a sword. I could agree that an epen may work but a full on sword?

@B-Kirill
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B-Kirill commented May 4, 2025

  1. It's really powerful, infinite repair on nukie Borgs and the ability to seal off airlocks from sec while still being a powerful weapon
  2. Logically have you ever tried to weld with a sword. I could agree that an epen may work but a full on sword?

Well yeah... then I can remove the welding from the double sword altogether, and make the debuff even stronger for the regular one, so it will be better.

@B-Kirill
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B-Kirill commented May 4, 2025

I have greatly reduced the welding speed of the sword and cutlass. I also removed the ability to weld with a double sword.
Although maybe I should have given it the minimum time as a cutlass, too?

Upd: I will do another rebalance tomorrow and update media

@TeenSarlacc
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is there a way to make it so you can only unweld doors with the swords, or not allow them to repair borgs?

@pheenty

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@keronshb
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keronshb commented May 4, 2025

This would be really busted with borgs that have an esword.

@shamblestf
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shamblestf commented May 4, 2025

I think this would make nukie borgs really oppressive, even if you remove the desword welding

I think it wouldnt be bad to keep on the E-Dagger specifically, at half speed. Might be interesting to see the edagger purchased by nukies as an infinite welding tool that isnt too fast, and it would make some nice utility for traitors on an otherwise bad weapon

Generally i would try to avoid buffing items that nukies already purchase commonly

@Entvari
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Entvari commented May 4, 2025

To all complaining about nukie borgs, you guys are aware nukies have welders right?
Making E-Swords weld would make literally zero difference to nukie borgs as in this PR they're slower than standard welders, therefore you'd have no reason to use it over a base welder unless you're terrible at prepping.

@RedBookcase
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Do Eswords/Edaggers have the ability to act as a cutting tool already? If so, are there any cases where giving energy weapons both cutting and welding functionality would cause issues?

@Princess-Cheeseballs
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They should at the very least get a big penalty to tool efficiency if this gets merged.

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@B-Kirill
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B-Kirill commented May 4, 2025

Do Eswords/Edaggers have the ability to act as a cutting tool already? If so, are there any cases where giving energy weapons both cutting and welding functionality would cause issues?

Nope

I wonder if people at least read the PR description

Nope

@NoElkaTheGod

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@NoElkaTheGod

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@pheenty

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@B-Kirill
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B-Kirill commented May 5, 2025

I think the speed penalty is perhaps a bit too harsh? Like, there's literally no way anyone would ever use an esword as a welder if it's 5 times slower than a normal welder (which you can find anywhere in like 30 seconds).

Hmm, that makes sense.

@Samuka-C
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Samuka-C commented May 5, 2025

I feel like it would make more sense if energy blades could unweld stuff, but not weld

like, you can use to unweld a door but not weld it

@walksanatora
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no I think a e-blade could melt the door down the middle to weld it shut. since welds even by a welder are not paticulary clean.

@Errant-4 Errant-4 added P3: Standard Priority: Default priority for repository items. T: New Feature Type: New feature or content, or extending existing content D2: Medium Difficulty: A good amount of codebase knowledge required. and removed S: Untriaged Status: Indicates an item has not been triaged and doesn't have appropriate labels. labels May 12, 2025
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github-actions bot commented Jun 5, 2025

This pull request has conflicts, please resolve those before we can evaluate the pull request.

@github-actions github-actions bot removed the S: Merge Conflict Status: Needs to resolve merge conflicts before it can be accepted label Jun 6, 2025
@slarticodefast
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Personally I would prefer to keep weapons and tools separate items. These really don't need any buffs, especially for borg ops.

@slarticodefast slarticodefast added the S: Concern A maintainer has raised concerns regarding the idea. The PR may be closed by another maintainer. label Jun 25, 2025
@B-Kirill
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Personally I would prefer to keep weapons and tools separate items. These really don't need any buffs, especially for borg ops.

Considering the welding speed, this is not even a buff, but a joke. It's just for a variety of mechanics, it's really hard to call it something out of balance.

@github-actions github-actions bot added the S: Merge Conflict Status: Needs to resolve merge conflicts before it can be accepted label Jul 30, 2025
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This pull request has conflicts, please resolve those before we can evaluate the pull request.

@github-actions github-actions bot removed the S: Merge Conflict Status: Needs to resolve merge conflicts before it can be accepted label Jul 31, 2025
@github-actions github-actions bot added the S: Merge Conflict Status: Needs to resolve merge conflicts before it can be accepted label Aug 10, 2025
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This pull request has conflicts, please resolve those before we can evaluate the pull request.

@github-actions github-actions bot removed the S: Merge Conflict Status: Needs to resolve merge conflicts before it can be accepted label Aug 11, 2025
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This pull request has conflicts, please resolve those before we can evaluate the pull request.

@github-actions github-actions bot added the S: Merge Conflict Status: Needs to resolve merge conflicts before it can be accepted label Aug 26, 2025
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SlamBamActionman commented Sep 3, 2025

So we discussed this in a maintainer voicechat and there were mixed opinions, mostly the concern being
a) Infinite fuel for Nukies with assault borgs
b) Swords are pretty large and unwieldy; feels unintuitive that they would be used to weld things when they really are for cutting (which you can already do while hitting).

As such, we feel that it's probably best to limit it to only the energy dagger, which is otherwise a relatively underutilized item and smaller in size. It also makes it match the cybersun pen (which has screwdriver utility). We'll have to keep an eye on this for the future if it ends up being a meta choice that empowers infinite sustain assault borgs, but otherwise it has approval.

We discussed this a bit more (I was a bit fast typing my first response!) and came to the following conclusion:

Ideally we'd want to see a separation between "repairing" and "welding shut"; for the sake of consistency it'd probably be better if all energy melees have the "welding shut" functionality and "repairing" is exclusive to the welding torches.

Additionally, is it necessary to have the WelderComponent?` It might be possible to achieve welding by using a ToolComponent, since that wouldn't require keeping track of fuel usage. It seems excessive to add 3 new properties to the component to achieve the desired behavior.

@SlamBamActionman SlamBamActionman added the S: Approved Status: Reviewed and approved by at least one maintainer; a PR may require another approval. label Sep 3, 2025
@slarticodefast
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Yeah, WeldingComponent right now is only there for keeping track of fuel consumption, so the energy swords should not have that in the first place (rather than disabling it with three different datafields). And ideally the component would be refactored into a more general ToolFuelConsumptionComponent.

@SlamBamActionman SlamBamActionman added S: Awaiting Changes Status: Changes are required before another review can happen and removed S: Needs Review Status: Requires additional reviews before being fully accepted. Not to be replaced by S: Approved. S: Approved Status: Reviewed and approved by at least one maintainer; a PR may require another approval. labels Sep 3, 2025
@PJBot PJBot added size/S Denotes a PR that changes 10-99 lines. and removed size/M Denotes a PR that changes 100-999 lines. labels Oct 21, 2025
@B-Kirill
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Changes:

  • Switched completely to using ToolComponent, old problems have been fixed, apparently.
  • Had to add AutoNetworkedField for UseSound in ToolComponent because ComponentToggler was breaking the sound for the client.
  • Removed the welding option for the hypereutactic-blade as it is strange for a weapon of this size.

I am still thinking, maybe I should remove the welding option for borg ops?

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A: General Interactions Area: General in-game interactions that don't relate to another area. A: Roundflow/Antag Area: Roundflow - "What happens in the game", including antagonist roles and their capabilities D2: Medium Difficulty: A good amount of codebase knowledge required. P3: Standard Priority: Default priority for repository items. S: Awaiting Changes Status: Changes are required before another review can happen S: Concern A maintainer has raised concerns regarding the idea. The PR may be closed by another maintainer. size/S Denotes a PR that changes 10-99 lines. T: Balance Change Type: Balance changes through direct value changes, or changes to mechanics that affect it T: New Feature Type: New feature or content, or extending existing content

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