PDA uplinks locking while in FTL, while evac exists and on the arrivals terminal

[Callmore]

About the PR

PDA uplinks are automatically locked when FTL is started and cannot be unlocked until they are done.
Also throws up popups when this happens. The popups are only visible to either the person attempting to unlock or to the person holding the PDA when it locks.

update: it now locks while evac is docked, might need more notifications in chat or something
@Errant-4

#34314

Why / Balance

shuttlebombing moment
reduce admin workload moment

Technical details

New component that can be applied to maps that will make the unlock code not unlock called LockableUplinkBlockedMapComponent. Makes uplinks just unable to be unlocked while on those maps.

Media

uplink.mp4

Requirements

• I have read and am following the Pull Request and Changelog Guidelines.
• I have added media to this PR or it does not require an ingame showcase.

Breaking changes

Changelog

🆑

• tweak: Uplinks can no longer be opened during FTL.

[Errant-4]

You just put its number on this PR without using the specific format that will cause an autoclose. Like this:

#34314

They are now linked referenced

[Errant-4]

Sorry, touchscreen moment

[Callmore]

Thanks errant

[Callmore]

You just put its number on this PR without using the specific format that will cause an autoclose. Like this:

#34314

They are now linked

Okay but seriously I just assumed doing that would autoclose the issue

Does it only autoclose if you add fixes before?

[Errant-4]

You just put its number on this PR without using the specific format that will cause an autoclose. Like this:
#34314
They are now linked

Okay but seriously I just assumed doing that would autoclose the issue

Does it only autoclose if you add fixes before?

Yes there are a few keywords that do that "fixes X" "closes X" not sure about the rest I slways just use "fixes"

[Callmore]

counterpoint, if it's against the rules, why is the player allowed to do it?

there's generally a preference to try and turn rules into mechanics, as it helps reduce admin workload.

you also had the entirety of the shift to do your objectives, that's most of the time at least an hour, game mechanics should discourage doing them on evac during the last 2 minutes instead of the first hour

[Hrosts]

Force locking uplinks during FTL isn't going to do anything. Shuttle bombing is already against the rules in MRP. It's allowed in LRP still as long as it doesnt cause excessive death. Let's also not completely ruin doing objectives on shuttle. This PR is only going to cause problems.

1. It should be against the rules even on LRP.
2. Enforcing mechanically > having to rely on admin presence and reports
3. Doing objectives on the shuttle is lame. You had all the time in the world to make the round interesting for others, instead you spent it doing nothing only to try and "win" in the most lazy way possible.

[Callmore]

3. Doing objectives on the shuttle is lame. You had all the time in the world to make the round interesting for others

I dont think you understand when I literally said you can wake up from cryo seconds before evac and roll syndicate. You can be forced to do them on evac as well even if you had it for over 30 minutes. This is quite literally a bad change and it will only cause bugs in the future with the uplink.

i agree! this is not good design! however it is one, unrelated to this pr, and two, could probably be fixed the same way that sleeper agents are fixed, just... stop letting them roll while evac is coming

[Callmore]

i would also like to mention that, while i didn't do it since i didn't want to bikeshed too much, the component for blocking uplinks could be easily added to cc and arrivals if wanted

[metalgearsloth]

lets also mention how there are times where evac gets called 20 minutes into the round due to singulo/tesla. what then? just take away their syndicate status cause fuck them?

If you're getting syndicate onboard the shuttle then you were never doing your objectives anyway.

[Hrosts]

lets also mention how there are times where evac gets called 20 minutes into the round due to singulo/tesla. what then? just take away their syndicate status cause fuck them?

There's no need to "fuck them", cause in a case of tesla or singulo being loose everyone's already fucked. These are round-ending cataclysms that break the round for every antagonist and non-antagonist out there. It's bad luck for evertyone, and fixing an annoying and lame practice of shuttlebombing has much larger value than giving the syndies a consolation prize of bombing the shuttle with those few who managed to survive a loose.

[Callmore]

could we uh
actually talk about the pr instead of talking about unrelated stuff
thanks

[Callmore]

I mean, magicking items out of thin air using uplink always felt gamey to me. Maybe we should implement more RP way of obtaining contra. Easiest way would be to use disposals bins and mailing units as shops, maybe sprinke some "destroyed" mailing units in maints.

I'm gonna be honest, I'm not in a position to write something like that, however your free to try!

[Emisse]

I disagree with this but I believe the better fix would be to disable uplink purchases rather than locking the pda

[Callmore]

I disagree with this but I believe the better fix would be to disable uplink purchases rather than locking the pda

i don't particularly like this idea just because I'm concerned it will interfere with nukies, but if there's a general consensus on it I'll look into doing that instead

[Callmore]

I disagree with this but I believe the better fix would be to disable uplink purchases rather than locking the pda

i don't particularly like this idea just because I'm concerned it will interfere with nukies, but if there's a general consensus on it I'll look into doing that instead

i don't want to interfere with loneops since they're unable to do their job if they can't buy any equipment, and i somehow feel it's more okay for them to blow up the shuttle if need be

[Callmore]

Wait escape pods don't count as successful escape to centcomm? If so that's a massive bug that should be fixed

iirc it's intended, if you want to escape you gotta go though evac

[EthanQix]

Wait escape pods don't count as successful escape to centcomm? If so that's a massive bug that should be fixed. An escape is an escape

It's been intended behavior since infamous, now banned antag roller Sosa complained that he couldn't get greentext every round, as sometimes he just wouldn't find his target.

#17890

[Callmore]

okay chat time to mald pr it locking all purchaces after being murdered by two bombs on evac

[Aisu9]

Wait escape pods don't count as successful escape to centcomm? If so that's a massive bug that should be fixed. An escape is an escape

escape pods brings you to centcomm, thus are meant to count as secondary method to reach centcomm alive.
They are here in emergency case you cannot reach the escape shuttle in time but are all horribly mapped to deliver on their intended purposes(half of the time they are in the deep end of maintenance, other time they are all packed together in the deep end of the station layout, making them nearly unuseable if you don't spend a minute rushing to them).
Each department should have an escape pod mapped in them, and a couple available to the greytiders.

[GoodWheatley]

Here’s my opinion on the change: It’s a good effort but I really doubt it’s going to make a difference. Anyone who thinks ahead and buys their bombs beforehand is still going to be able to get on the shuttle and set them off.

The only thing this directly nerfs is hardbombing the shuttle, which was already not a good idea since you had to plant it before the shuttle takes off or the crew could just wait out the timer and get off at CC before it blows up.

The reason for this is this searching sixty people before they board the shuttle is a virtually impossible task. Evac docks are not equipped for screening people who are getting on, and even if they were, players are just going to try to get around them because nobody is going to want to get in a massive line to be searched. Even if a would be bomber does consent to being searched, they can just have their bombs in a storage implant and still blow up the shuttle.

Even then, the evac dock isn’t even the only way people can get on: most emergency shuttles have airlocks facing space that anyone with a hardsuit can just walk through. And with everyone in security focusing on trying to screen people at the evac dock, nobody is going to call out the salvager who went in through the airlock and the shuttle is still going to get blown up.

Looking at this PR in a vacuum, I don’t see it actually making a meaningful difference in stopping shuttlebombings because you still have to search and then detain someone to get the bombs.

Even if you consider the contraband detector PR, this can still lead to false positives, the ones baked into the machine and the ones from people carrying contraband that isn’t a bomb, that cause the searches to be slowed down even more. Keep in mind that this all these searches and screenings have to be done in three minutes, otherwise the shuttle is going to leave. You can’t just prescreen people either, because then they can just buy a bomb before the shuttle docks.

The point I’m trying to make here is that short of drastic measures like being unable to prime a bomb on the evac shuttle at all, there is always going to be a way to bomb the shuttle by nature of this being a sandbox game. There’s no singular method of blowing up the evac shuttle, so you’re now entering into an arms race of constantly trying to figure out how to stop this when there’s always another, craftier, way to do it.

And why wouldn’t people do it? It’s the fastest way to get your objective done, it’s the most probable way to ensure your target is going to stay dead, it gives security the least amount of time to arrest you and ruin your greentext, and style points aren’t being tracked.

And if you don’t want to get blown up as a bystander, that’s what escape pods are for in the first place- a way to escape the station without taking the shuttle.

Overall this is just treating the symptoms of the problem instead of actually getting to the source- the kill objective sucks. It not only needs you to figure out how to kill someone without security knowing, but requires you to make sure they stay dead- which encourages either round removing the player, which is usually extremely planning intensive, or killing them when there’s the least amount of time for them to be revived- so bombing them on the shuttle.

And this sucks, because unlike the steal objective, which mostly consists of thieving gloving the the target for their item, this is a very mechanically complex objective to pull off, with a lot of ways to approach it. But requiring the target to stay dead removes most of that creativity in favor of gibbing someone in maints or blowing them up on the shuttle. And unless the kill objective gets changed, shuttlebombing is still going to be the optimal strategy for accomplishing it.

tldr: instead of trying to prevent shuttlebombing change it so shuttlebombing isn’t the best strategy. Rework the kill objective so the target doesn’t need to be dead when the round ends, just that you’ve killed them at some point.

[Callmore]

i feel just stating one thing will be the solution is itself misguided
there's multiple reasons people do it, and really they should all be looked into, not just assumed fixing x will solve y

[GoodWheatley]

i feel just stating one thing will be the solution is itself misguided there's multiple reasons people do it, and really they should all be looked into, not just assumed fixing x will solve y

I’m not saying changing the kill objective is going to completely prevent it- there’s always going to be someone who still decides to wait to evac to blow up their target. But in my opinion it’s a cleaner solution than trying to mechanically prevent blowing up the shuttle when there’s a limitless amount of ways to do it.

[Hrosts]

People keep mentioning how everyone would just buy the explosives earlier, but I think there's a decent chunk of traitor players who just have unspent TC when boarding the evac and spend them on whatever is most straightforward for the situation. Shuttle-bombing is not always this pre-planned thing, it can be a scrap to do anything when you've missed your opportunities during the round.

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[Princess-Cheeseballs]

Hi, I did a short investigation about a week ago into shuttle bombing where I looked at all the shuttle bombings on vulture and Lizard over the course of I think two days.

My findings pointed to this PR being very effective at mechanically preventing a large chunk of shuttle bombings.

The vast majority of bombs detonated on evac 14/18, were bought after evac arrived with most being bought on evac itself. Most bombings also weren't very well planned but spur of the moment decisions a traitor made to try to complete an objective.

Most did not have DAGD (3/14 bombers had DAGD) and most failed to greentext (4/14 bombers greentexted, three of whom had DAGD and blew themselves up)

This doesn't kill shuttle strats as you can buy bombs beforehand as some people did, this just means that you have to do or at least plan your objectives on the station and account for evac coming when making those plans.

Players will adapt yes, but overall this should stop the vast majority of shuttle bombings simply by not letting someone teleport in a bomb to then fail to do their objective with.

If this is genuinely too much of a hindrance for your traitor strategies, that's a skill issue on your part and I have the statistics to back it up.

Also, this PR shouldn't be the only solution, but it's a good start.

[PicklOH]

Overall this is just treating the symptoms of the problem instead of actually getting to the source- the kill objective sucks. It not only needs you to figure out how to kill someone without security knowing, but requires you to make sure they stay dead- which encourages either round removing the player, which is usually extremely planning intensive, or killing them when there’s the least amount of time for them to be revived- so bombing them on the shuttle.

And this sucks, because unlike the steal objective, which mostly consists of thieving gloving the the target for their item, this is a very mechanically complex objective to pull off, with a lot of ways to approach it. But requiring the target to stay dead removes most of that creativity in favor of gibbing someone in maints or blowing them up on the shuttle. And unless the kill objective gets changed, shuttlebombing is still going to be the optimal strategy for accomplishing it.

tldr: instead of trying to prevent shuttlebombing change it so shuttlebombing isn’t the best strategy. Rework the kill objective so the target doesn’t need to be dead when the round ends, just that you’ve killed them at some point.

I think Liltenhead's server does this? And I love it. "Send a Message" rather than kill. I love it. That way you don't have to RR someone to greentext, just kill them once.

I also agree with everything else you said. I think players will get around it, a scanner system is just obtuse and won't help anything. I just fail to see why Evac has a timer at all if its not for traitors to get a chance to greentext one last time. If the sentiment is generally "Doing objectives on the shuttle is lame. You had all shift." then why does evac shuttle have a timer at all? Bluespace us to CC and end the round then.

[walksanatora]

then why does evac shuttle have a timer at all? Bluespace us to CC and end the round then.

IC: Bluespace is expensive for that many objects. not worth it.
OOC: gives you some time to unwind. also some sneaky traitors could still get some objectives done (nocturine someone and throw them out the airlock). and theieves the ability to go wild stealing IDs or other pocket trinkets if command staff is nice enough to be outside the command area.

[SiLiCoN141]

Wouldnt it be better to remove the ability to buy bombs on evac so you could still buy like a cobra or something?

[EthanQix]

Wouldnt it be better to remove the ability to buy bombs on evac so you could still buy like a cobra or something?

The point is to incentivize traitors to get shit done during the shift (like they are supposed to), not just prevent shuttlebombings.

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[Callmore]

i haven't touched this in ages, someone else can feel free to pick this up