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02 Oct 2024

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Philipp Ahmann edited this page Oct 2, 2024 · 4 revisions

Roll call

* indicates TSC voting members

Host

  • *Philipp Ahmann

Attended this meeting

  • *Alessandro Carminati
  • Naresh Ravuri
  • Pete Brink
  • *Matt Kelly
  • *Paul Albertella
  • *Matt Weber
  • Olivier Charrier
  • *Sudip Mukherjee

Regrets

  • *Gabriele Paoloni
  • *Kate Stewart

Attended recently in the past

  • Olivier Charrier
  • *Sudip Mukherjee
  • *Lukas Bulwahn
  • *Christopher Temple
  • Steve VanderLeest
  • Youssef Hajjioui
  • JE[A]Y
  • Vipul Gupta

Topics & Notes

Check past action items

  • Action items in github issues
  • https://github.com/elisa-tech/tsc/issues
  • AI-Paul: Discuss in OSEP WG meeting where to put the "good practices for Open Source" document
    • Discussed, but not a proposal yet
  • AI: EMQ SDV WG ideas to be added to next TSC meeting agenda

Next workshop timing/location considerations

  • NASA has the facility available from December 10th to 12th
  • Location: Goddard Space Flight Center https://maps.app.goo.gl/NoVcCPoSEk38ardU6
  • Aerospace and Space WG discuss about topics for a workshop after the TSC
  • Some already announced issues with travel funding.
  • Will we have a space topic track in case we are at NASA?
  • Set up a poll with the question, where people are able to attend:
    • I can travel to US.
    • I can travel to Europe.
    • I can travel to Europe & US
    • I can only attend virtually.
  • It can also be an option to have a special workshop, out of typical workshop series.

TSC member and chair elections

  • Proposed schedule
  • TSC Member
    • Nominations 2 weeks: October 7-18
    • Voting 1 week: October 21-25
  • TSC Chair / vice-Chair (TSC backup)
    • Nomination 2 weeks: Nov 4-15
    • Voting 1 week: Nov 18-22
  • Leaving a week gap between the two elections due to OSS Japan

LFSCS: Randomization and the impact to safety

  • Crypto lib from kernel is needed to run a program that "does nothing".
  • Random function to set Kernel offset random, to make life harder for attackers.
    • Really useful in security. Different concern in safety.
  • In higher level of safety (A/B in aerospace) to have predicable and testable behavior means heavier efforts to use random. It need to be easily verifiable on system level. There may be a tipping point in systems with less criticality where also security comes into picture as a stronger argument.
  • Randomization makes the kernel allocation resource not predictable.
    • If we have a variety of different methods, it could be up to the provider of the system to use this.
    • Thread analysis and attack vectors analysis can show, if there is a randomization needed.
  • Without randomization the claims on safety could become easier from technical perspective.
  • Determinism is not possible for all cases. There are functions in kernel space (which can be mostly deterministic), but in user space they may not be deterministic.
  • Key message to be carried: "You need to be careful, when using randomization. You need to explain how you handle it, when it is switched on."
    • You could also start testing with randomization switched off and check behavior and switch on later and run your tests.
  • Please respond also to Alessandro and the LFSCS what you think about randomization! Bring this forward in your working groups.

Mentorship proposal -> more details on October 16th

  • Fault induction testing by simulating corruption of kernel data structures
  • https://github.com/elisa-tech/wg-osep/issues/42
  • Needs further discussion with Shuah (as she has a background in kernel testing and mentorships)
  • As kernel data structures are more stable, this could be good also for longer testing and checking over longer time.

ELISA result database -> more details on October 16th

Publishing of (individual) results -> more details on October 16th

  • Review and publish 'Contributions' material as 'official' ELISA guidance
  • https://github.com/elisa-tech/wg-osep/issues/40
  • Get a more coherent way and how we get excellent work discoverable by others.
  • Results could be made better available with the right linking and forum.

Plumbers recap -> more details on October 16th

  • Sustainable Kernel & documentation improvements

Optional: OSS EU recap

Optional: Short status from WGs

Up to 3 bullet points

  • Aerospace/Space
    • Survey ongoing for Space Grade Linux interest
    • Aerospace use case effort focused on testing aspects
  • Automotive
  • Medical
  • Arch
  • Linux Features
  • OSEP
  • Tools
  • Systems

AoB

  • Shift next TSC meeting to October 23rd same time
  • Zephyr Meetup October 17th at ZAL.aero (ELISA will talk about Systems WG there)

Announcements

Topics for seminar series

  • To be defined: SDV seminar by EMQ to motivate the update and cloud part of HPC systems
  • RT webinar once PREEMPT_RT as last patch is mainline.🥳
  • Past webinars on website: https://elisa.tech/seminar-series/
  • Later during the year:
  • ELISA user story by a company.
  • Julia Lawall about formal verification (derived from Lund Linux Con presentation

Upcoming events

  • 22-24 Oct OCA (Eclipse Automotive Conference) in Karlsruhe area (Germany)
  • 23-25 Oct Exida Automotive Symposium
  • 28-29 Oct Open Source Summit Japan in Tokyo area (Japan)
  • 19-21 Nov Linux Foundation member summit in Napa (US)
  • 10-12 Dec ELISA Workshop at Nasa (Washington DC, US)
  • 01-02 Feb Fosdem in Brussels (Belgium)

Remarks

Collaborative editing: https://mensuel.framapad.org/p/elisa-tsc-minutes-a9tp?lang=en

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