Complexity-based Food

[Killerqu00]

This is a proposal for a generic food system, allowing for granting buffs to foods without creating any meta choices, nutrition rebalancing, and support for modular cooking methods.

[sudobeans]

I like this proposal, the food complexity system seems intuitive and I like the buff ideas.

I think it would also be nice if a player could get satiated by eating multiple simpler foods instead of just eating a complex food. e.g., you should also get a buff if you eat soup and bread. (Though this would risk making "10 different kinds of produce on the counter" the new meta)

[Lukasz825700516]

I like the idea of the food groups.

[Lukasz825700516]

What if the ingredient has multiple food groups assigned to it? And in what order will the ingredients be taken into account when doing calculations?

[Killerqu00]

The order is descending. Ingredients usually don't have multiple food groups, but if it does - it should probably count towards both food groups, but split the complexity between them.

[Lukasz825700516]

I feel like kitchen appliance usage should increase the complexity even if in very minor way, to encourage the ingredient preparation, gameplay than just shoving everything into magical microwave.

[Killerqu00]

Kitchen appliance usage does increase complexity, just not in the case of a microwave/using a knife, since those operations are too simple. Other operations could actually count, but that has to be decided on a case-by-case basis, plus chef doesn't have that much operations yet.

[Lukasz825700516]

I don't really know for who would this tool be, as chief that made the food knows how complex making process of it was, and for crew the number would be sometimes useless in case they cant even eat that specific dish.
Maybe showing complexity of each food group be better, as it would be more informative why lizard person cant eat meat looking food.

[Killerqu00]

as chief that made the food knows how complex making process of it was

Not exactly - they know making this dish was hard, but they don't have a numerical value. This tool simply allows to output dish complexity and food groups nicely and as in-character info - treat it like the nutritional info at the back of many food products IRL.

[Lukasz825700516]

Do I have to consume whole food item to receive the buff, or just take one bite of it? What if somebody took bite of my food item already?

[Lukasz825700516]

Will the player be able to receive more than one buff at the time?

[Killerqu00]

You can consume food partially, but that will reduce the complexity. Consuming 1/2 of an 8 compexity food will grant you a buff for 4 complexity.

[Killerqu00]

You can only have 1 "Satiated" buff at each single moment. The buff consists of several small buffs, depending on the complexity and food groups of the item.

[Lukasz825700516]

Wont this kill ability to grind food into nutrition, vitamin paste for drinking/injecting?

[Killerqu00]

No. They're still present in the solution, they're just not manually defined for each type of food.

[Froozigiusz]

Fascinating read, this document was. I have one question though: how will the condiments and other substances added to the finished product work with the calculations? They are dynamic by nature, sometimes belonging to a group not found elswhere (like with salt and sugar being minerals) and being able to be mixed with other addatives if done correctly.

Would sprinkling sugar on a bagel make any significant difference besides customer's satisfaction? Would producing an omega–sauce result in the uncontrolled doomstacking with the correct ingredient mixing?

If those additions would count for the complexity, how likely is it for the crew to ostracise a poor chef for making “sauceless” hamburgers?

[Absotively]

I like the idea of food's effects being based on what's in it.

I am not sure I like this method of calculating & displaying complexity as a way of achieving it. To me it feels like an extra layer of numbers over the food groups + ingredient counts + nutriment/vitamin levels that are actually affecting things. There's the possibility of some ingredients having higher complexity, but it doesn't seem to be very separate from ingredients having more nutriment. I'm also not sure about food groups themselves, it feels a little odd that there are no effective differences between foods in the same food group.

Also, from the discussion above:

You can consume food partially, but that will reduce the complexity. Consuming 1/2 of an 8 compexity food will grant you a buff for 4 complexity.

How would this work? If a player eats half a food, pauses to respond to someone else at the dining table, and then eats the rest of the food, do they only get half a buff? Does it depend how long the pause is? What if two players each get a plate of nachos, eat half of their own nachos, swap plates, and eat the second half of the other player's nachos?

It seems like the obvious answer would be that you have to eat the entire food item at once, which I personally would dislike for RP reasons.

I would also like to see some more detail about how modular cooking methods might work. I'd like to know what kinds of food you expect it would be possible to make, and how involved making them would be. I know about FoodSequence burgers and such, but it doesn't seem like a very intuitive approach for foods like soup or bread to me.

Finally, I think it's a bit optimistic to assume there won't be meta choices. Even if foods are very similar in terms of buffs, I think some people will still try to determine a best food and change their gameplay to acquire it.

[Killerqu00]

I am not sure I like this method of calculating & displaying complexity as a way of achieving it. To me it feels like an extra layer of numbers over the food groups + ingredient counts + nutriment/vitamin levels that are actually affecting things.

The complexity determines nutriment/vitamin levels directly, so they're the same, effectively.

I'm also not sure about food groups themselves, it feels a little odd that there are no effective differences between foods in the same food group.

What do you mean by "Foods in the same food group"? Complex food has many food groups in a different ratio, so the buff you get is different.

How would this work? What if two players each get a plate of nachos, eat half of their own nachos, swap plates, and eat the second half of the other player's nachos?

By storing the food item EntityUid. The second example is extremely unlikely, but I guess you could store the food recipe instead if you want to avoid it...?

I would also like to see some more detail about how modular cooking methods might work.

This is out of scope of the PR. Modular cooking methods won't fix the main design issues with chef.

Even if foods are very similar in terms of buffs, I think some people will still try to determine a best food and change their gameplay to acquire it.

The only thing they can determine is the best food group. Given that the buffs are supposed to be minor, they have a cap, and they only provide either generic non-combat buffs or small buffs specific to a game area, you'd want the best food item for the task you'll be doing (if you want to hyper-optimize, of course). You'll still ask for different choices based on a situation, not just eat the same McPowergame™ burger every single time.