Reorder text in created notes

[FloEdelmann]

In the community thread https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/unable-to-answer-notes-von-streetcomplete/117338, some people stated that they misunderstood notes created by StreetComplete because they didn't notice that there is (e.g. German) user-created text after the (always English) "Unable to answer …" part. After being told that, they recognize their usefulness.

It was suggested to reorder the text in the notes to put the user-created text first. That would make the most important text the first thing to read, and give context later. Also, for notes with attached images, this puts all the "hardcoded" English text in one block after the user-created text, reducing the number of language switches from 2 to 1.

Glancing over a few notes created by StreetComplete (using NotesReview), I'd say that it makes sense. Occasionally, someone answers the question in the note text (e.g. starts their note with "no"), which is then a little harder to understand. But reading the following quest title then should resolve misunderstandings. In the other examples, I think the suggested order is a little clearer.

Example	Current	Suggested
Note 4543306	Unable to answer "What are the opening hours here?" – Diavolo (Restaurant) – https://osm.org/node/2380017230 via StreetComplete 57.1: C'est un hotel	C'est un hotel Unable to answer "What are the opening hours here?" – Diavolo (Restaurant) – https://osm.org/node/2380017230 via StreetComplete 57.1
Note 4543141	Unable to answer "Is there tactile paving at the top and bottom of these steps?" – Steps – https://osm.org/way/949170599 via StreetComplete 59.3: Keine Treppe! Gepflasterte Schräge ohne Handläufe. Attached photo(s): https://westnordost.de/p/252925.jpg	Keine Treppe! Gepflasterte Schräge ohne Handläufe. Attached photo(s): https://westnordost.de/p/252925.jpg Unable to answer "Is there tactile paving at the top and bottom of these steps?" – Steps – https://osm.org/way/949170599 via StreetComplete 59.3
Note 4543071	Unable to answer "Are these opening hours still correct?" – Sanitätshaus Glotz (Medical Supply Store) – https://osm.org/node/3797860157 via StreetComplete_ee 59.2: Nein, siehe Bild Attached photo(s): https://westnordost.de/p/252922.jpg	Nein, siehe Bild Attached photo(s): https://westnordost.de/p/252922.jpg Unable to answer "Are these opening hours still correct?" – Sanitätshaus Glotz (Medical Supply Store) – https://osm.org/node/3797860157 via StreetComplete_ee 59.2
Note 4542219	In context of overlay "Things" – Public Bookcase – https://osm.org/node/12394062544 via StreetComplete 59.3: Name "Bücherzelle"	Name "Bücherzelle" In context of overlay "Things" – Public Bookcase – https://osm.org/node/12394062544 via StreetComplete 59.3

[mnalis]

Probably would improve situation in many cases. Although, some would become more confusing - e.g. your example where note starts with "Nein, siehe Bild" - I mean, "Nein" what?

IOW, one would usually¹ very much expect temporal consistency, i.e. that the question is first being asked before it is being answered.

Although it might work even in reversed temporal order but only if the answer is detailed/expanded enough. E.g. if the user wrote in the Note "The opening hours are not correct here, see picture" that would be quite understandable as first sentence and good match!

But it is IMHO quite likely (especially while typing on mobile keyboard) that user will use some short form when they are asked questions like "Are these opening hours still correct?" -- like "No" in that example, which would in some cases be quite confusing if that were to be shown as first (initial) text.

Footnotes

1. unless it is a plot for time-travel movie or something 😄 ↩

[westnordost]

Hm, I don't know... see @mnalis , maybe the wording of "Unable to answer..." would need to be changed, then, to... "As answer to"?

But this would somewhat make it more difficult to properly filter for StreetComplete "can't answer" notes.

[matkoniecz]

Searching for "via StreetComplete" will be still possible.

[westnordost]

What does the forum think?

[kmpoppe]

What does the forum think?

After almost having a seizure from reading the negativity in the 60 comments of the thread, 3 people were in favour of reordering, no other responses as far as I saw.

K

[westnordost]

Haha, you should have been around in the old forum! :-D Noo, nowadays the forum is tame, it is only a few people that herumstänkern.

Good to hear from you, by the way :-)

[westnordost]

Alright, anyway, 🤷‍♂️, three people is not a huge base to make decisions on, but if you personally also feel that what you proposed is better, I'd be fine with accepting a PR that reorders it if the wording is changed so that it doesn't sound weird.

[westnordost]

I read the forum topic too, and I think the confusion from the topic starter was mostly because the user did not read the whole note. It is very difficult to guard against people not reading things. I can well imagine that the next complaint (after you make this change) will be that StreetComplete users supposedly leave "useless" notes like, ... I don't know, e.g.

"Usually raised but broken, so quite flat now"

because the complaining users didn't read the full note, which would have been

Usually raised but broken, so quite flat now

As answer to "What’s the height of this kerb?" – Kerb – https://osm.org/way/123456789 via StreetComplete 59.3

[kmpoppe]

I'm with @mnalis, one might answer as long or short as they please which could make the note text sound weird.

I guess this isn't just a question of making a swaparoo, the note text created by SC evolved (quite rightly) over the last years and made them more of an effort to read for the user.

I absolutely do not see an issue with the note texts, so I will need to have a hard think about what could be a way forward.

K

[westnordost]

FYI this PR on openstreetmap-website will introduce tags for notes, just like you have for e.g. changesets: openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website#5344

The PR hasn't been rejected, so there's a good chance that it will be merged. After it has been merged, of course it first has to establish itself (applications need to set and interpret the tags, standards/documentation needs to arise for which tags mean what)

This would enable us to put some information currently in the note text into tags, e.g.

Key	Value
created_by	StreetComplete v59.3
locale	en-US
streetcomplete_quest	AddKerbHeight
osm_element	node#123456789

However, I think it would still make sense to show the question and the feature name in the text itself

[kmpoppe]

I know that that's kind of a controversial one with Switzerland and Luxembourg having 3 or 4 main languages, but I wonder if the app could send the note text in the local language - or the phone's locale if the former isn't unique.

Also, IF tags get done for notes I would assume the object wouldn't need to go into the text, the question otoh should be in the text, because only a select few people know what "AddKerbHeight" means 😉

K

[matkoniecz]

but I wonder if the app could send the note text in the local language

main problem here is that I searched by question text to find notes for given question (for example to confirm/disprove report about it being confusing or users creating many bad notes related to it)

once #6036 (comment) is available it may make sense to consider it, as it will be possible to search by streetcomplete_quest field (though it will result in backward incomparability)

[kmpoppe]

(though it will result in backward incomparability)

Wouldn't you just need to search twice, once for the english text that we have now and the quest field?

[matkoniecz]

yes, necessity to search twice is what I meant by "backward incomparability" in this context