Pitfall in differences between edit print parameters and suggested settings

[Cilsor]

When I have attempted to change settings via tools > edit print parameters, specifically for a Saturn 4 Ultra 16k, changes to wait time didn't work. Most ignorant users like myself would see the times change on the layers, scrub through the bar, think they did it right, and then be mystified when their bottom layer waits don't differ from their normal layer waits. With tilt-vat printers, this is the number one change people use to stop problems. No matter what I changed in that menu, synchronized or not, perlayersettings stayed at 0. The Ai assistance from multiple Ai sources ( Grok, GTP, Gemini ) all regurgitated this outdated advice about unchecking synchronized and cited sources from about 3+ years ago.

I stumbled across a reddit post with maybe 25 replies. The user points out that users should go to the suggestions and automations tab, click the gear, and set up waits and cures there. Check on insert a blank/empty layer, set up rules, then apply those rules via the suggestion system. Eureka! perlayersettings changes value, I have an empty 0 layer with 0/0/0 waits, and when I go to print this file, the file prints with the 20 second wait on layer 1 that I wanted, tapering down to 2 second waits by layer 12, like I wanted, and the print comes out beautiful. 6mm is 6mm. No pancaking. No ripping even when I purposely overwhelm the build plate with a stress test.

The base point is, most users will probably try to accomplish the advice given by DarrenRoskow of reddit and Jan Mrázek of honzamrazek.cz by using the edit print parameters menu. With little to no understanding of why the configuration options they've changed don't appear to stick.

Would it be possible to somehow draw attention to the need for that blank/empty layer from the edit print parameters menu? Give it the same functionality in terms of changing perlayersettings and fixing wait times that the suggested changes system offers or suggest the user use the suggestions menu instead?

["Note: Set global parameters will override all per layer settings when they are available" if this is intended to be that warning, this warning isn't very clear to a lower education user in the space and also doesn't adequately communicate to the user that they can override the global parameters via suggestions menu. ]

Thank you.

[sn4k3]

The tool for editing layer parameters should work, the problem is the printers fw are broken since ever and they don't care to fix such easy thing. The problem is that printers ignore your wait times for very first layer, that's why the empty layer come in action, it's a "hack" to fix a "stupid" problem that they don't care to put it right. UVtools became a fixer for careless problems, in fact I still advocate that UVtools should not exists, if so it was a good thing, it means things were done correctly and for the good of the user.

About outdated info I can't control, Jan then published a new entry on blog on how to use the new suggestion feature, that by design you don't need to configure, just accept every advice and it will try "universal" settings for the best.

"edit print parameters" is not meant for hacking nor to use complex strategies, it just what it is - Edit print parameters.
Is true that some can have no effect like the wait time for the first layer, but this also depends on printer and is not universal.
About perlayersettings flag it will turn on when required and if a setting diff from global, note that by change 1 setting: eg -- bottom wait time, it just reset all bottom wait time to the value and not other global settings.
Also another thing to keep in mind is that some printers even with flag don't follow per layer settings, with that in mind it is disabled by default for the problematic formats, Anycubic, GOO and others... Your machine is compatible with CTB and GOO (i think) so you will get different behaviour depending on format you choose even if settings are all equal. The perlayersettings can be enabled to GOO in UVtools settings but users report problems and is safer if is OFF, however it might worth to try on machine.
Another good piece of advice is to never update your printer firmware if everything is working as it should. In the past I have seen users losing the perlayersettings ability because they updated the firmware.

Would it be possible to somehow draw attention to the need for that blank/empty layer from the edit print parameters menu? Give it the same functionality in terms of changing perlayersettings and fixing wait times that the suggested changes system offers or suggest the user use the suggestions menu instead?

As mention this tool is just meant to edit raw properties as they are in file and not any other addition or strategies.
I understand that outdated info can sometimes lead to mistakes or less effictive way but I can't develop and sustain the ideia that I must run behind outdated information and try to fix every hole. Even the possibility to auto add a empty layer if you edit bottom wait time fits some but IF user don't want it? Thats why specific tool exists -- Suggestions, that is dedicated to the strategy and it's dynamic, unlike the edit properties.

[Cilsor]

Even the possibility to auto add a empty layer if you edit bottom wait time fits some but IF user don't want it?

I would be very happy with this, with the exact same wording present in the suggested area, and exact same functionality. Rather than auto add the layer, however, could you just have a checkbox that is redundant? Looks and acts exactly like the original, with the exact same text. Mirroring that checkbox, text and functionality is all I'd need to streamline my use of edit parameters and have them work without having to lean onto the suggested changes system. That way the user is still in control on if that hack is employed. For users where the existing system works and they don't need it, nothing changes for them. For those of us who need it, we have more direct access.

OR. A suggested setting change to where one of the suggested settings is just straight "Add empty hack layer for wait times" to paraphrase. So a user can add that blank layer with 0 waits, without having to consent/concede to any other changes.

I do understand the sentiment you have though. I'm rather upset that Elegoo still has yet to fix .goo and AA settings. I don't for a moment expect that they can't fix it just because they're using chitubox boards.