Renaming Starlite

[Goldziher]

So, a repeated point of contention is the name of the package. While I personally like Starlite, some people find the similarity to Starlette confusing and difficult.

I'd like us to reach a decision on (A) should we rename the library and the org? And if we agree that we should actually do this, (B) let's agree on a name.

Note: I originally started out with synapse, but it was taken in pypi.

[cofin]

While I also like the name Starlite, I can understand why there might be confusion and contention. I've also noticed that it becomes a topic of discussion quite often.

While there's a lot of effort in renaming/rebranding everything, I think it may be the best thing we can do for recognition/differentiation in the long term.

I'm in favor of a change, but I don't have any suggestions just yet.

[provinzkraut]

I'd also second a renaming. If we're going to do it, we should do it now. The longer we wait, the more cumbersome and problematic it gets.

As for the new name, I don't have any immediate suggestions, but I'll see if I can't come up with a few ideas!

[peterschutt]

Agree, if this is going to be done, it should be done asap.

The project to merge the authentication libs would be a convenient way to encapsulate the rebranding for those.

[Goldziher]

Ok, lemme write some ideas to get the discussion going - I'm literally checking pypi 😁 to eliminate, thus far these are free:

• Light, LightAPI
• Botschaft (German for mission)
• Emissary
• Bridge
• Gateway
• Sphere
• Orbus (Sphere in Latin)
• Astralapi

[peterschutt]

morningstar gone (https://pypi.org/project/morningstar/), added stardrive

[Goldziher]

Also stardriver and spacecraft

[provinzkraut]

• FacileAPI: facile - "Easy" / "simple" in french
• Lumière (lumiere): "Light" in french

[Goldziher]

Photonic

[dantium]

If I may I would like to suggest: BrightAPI as in starlight shining bright"

[peterschutt]

Thoughts on initially supporting the starlite namespace within the new named lib? For example, after pip install new-starlite, does from starlite import Starlite continue to work, or is that an error? And, if we do support it, should it be deprecated with a warning immediately? This would somewhat smooth over the transition downstream.

WRT to the starlite package on pypi, we can make a shim package - basically a simple package with the new-starlite as a single dependency that proxies through to the underlying lib. If so, would that point to a specific version of new-starlite, or always the latest. Importing from the shim lib could also propagate a warning.

To drive the migration, we should seek out public repos that depend on us and make a PR that modernizes and uses the new name. It would be in our best interests to have as many public examples of usage of the library depending on the new name.

[provinzkraut]

I think we definitely need to provide a shim package at first, and import names should continue to work with a deprecation warning for now.

Installing the shim package should do the same thing as installing the new package, except it adds a deprecation warning. I wonder if there isn't a way to elegantly handle this with pyproject.toml / poetry, i.e. to release it under one name, with the same code, except for a script executed at install time that raises a deprecation warning. That would definitely be the smoothest transition (for us and users) if we additionally keep things available from starlite.

[peterschutt]

Should the shim be locked to the first version under the new name, or always pull in the latest? Lets say someone pins to 1.40.0 which is the shim release, it wouldn't really be pinned if the dependency to the new lib wasn't pinned.

Found this: https://github.com/simonw/pypi-rename

[provinzkraut]

Neither. I would propose we simply continue to release the shim alongside the new package for a while, and only pin it when we stop releasing it.

[peterschutt]

Right, so we would pin the new-name dependency in the shim for each release, and continue to release under both names for a period of time.

E.g., we release New Name 1.40.1, and Starlite 1.40.1 which has a single dependency that is new-name==1.40.1.

Then, we make a new feature release, so we release New Name v1.41.0, and Starlite v1.41.0 that has new-name==1.41.0 as its dependency.. etc etc.

[Alphasite]

Have you considered something close to the current name (for continuity and name recognition), but different enough to be its one thing?

My suggestion is Starlight (or Star Light for a subtly different take).

It’s likely just different enough that people won’t mistake it for starlette in my opinion and as a side benifit, it allows you to maintain the current (very nice) logo.

[Goldziher]

Have you considered something close to the current name (for continuity and name recognition), but different enough to be its one thing?

My suggestion is Starlight (or Star Light for a subtly different take).

It’s likely just different enough that people won’t mistake it for starlette in my opinion and as a side benifit, it allows you to maintain the current (very nice) logo.

Starlight is taken in pypi. Was my first go at the starlite name.

[Alphasite]

Hmm, star-light is available, not the biggest fan of double barrel names, but it’s an option.

[Goldziher]

Ok, it seems that the pypi search is not good enough. As @peterschutt pointed out the way to check this is to Google pypi <name>.

[peterschutt]

Here's an aggregate of all suggestions thus far, filtered for names already taken:

1. Astraea (Greek mythology, daughter of the goddess of dawn Eos, goddess of justice, innocence purity and precision)
2. Astraeus (Greek mythology, father of Astraea)
3. Astralapi (astra is Greek for star)
4. Astralight
5. Astralite
6. Botschaft (German for mission)
7. Emissary
8. FacileAPI
9. Galaxia (Greek for Galaxy)
10. Gateway
11. Gravitas
12. Juncture
13. LightAPI
14. Lumiere
15. Orbus (Sphere in Latin)
16. Propellant
17. Soleil (French for Sun)
18. Spacecraft
19. Star-light
20. Stardrive
21. Stardriver
22. Starlane
23. Starway
24. Tzedek

[metaperl]

Is Bridge taken? it was listed earlier

[peterschutt]

OK I've created a poll: #800

Each member of the org can suggest 2 names, anyone can vote. Votes close in a week from today.

LMK if you think any of the terms should change.

[provinzkraut]

Hmm. True. An easy solution would be to just create 2 polls, so everyone can get at least 2 votes in?

[peterschutt]

I think that would be too confusing as they would be two separate discussions. If the general consensus is that a single vote PP pole is inadequate, I will pull it and we can work out another strategy. I've asked in discord.

[provinzkraut]

Oh, I assumed you could have more than one poll in a discussion 😢

[peterschutt]

It's a shame - I was hoping the poll could be created in this discussion, but a poll is a discussion type.

[metaperl]

Those suggested names bear no relation to what this product does... FastAPI is an attractive yet descriptive name.... hard to type things "Astraea" are not desired at all.

[peterschutt]

Maybe we should create a poll about how we poll?

You must work in government?

[infohash]

I personally like starlite name as is. I have a concern that renaming it will put this project into the category of "Yet another competing project that claims to be faster". Think about how many web frameworks in Python do you ever search twice? We want this project to earn the reputation of industrial use like FastAPI became in 2 years and for that, consistency is important.

There is one advantage of keeping similar names and most mobile brands use this strategy. It gives higher search results on the frontpage of Google for similar things. Just look at how many mobile brands have "Note" series.

If we write about how starlite is/was related to Starlette, the SEO will show that on the front page. I would rather abstain from voting.

[peterschutt]

You are certainly free to nominate starlite for the poll, it would be good to have it in there TBH.

[jonadaly]

@peterschutt Couple of suggesitions on the theme of starlight:

Superluminal
Luminance
Incandescent

[peterschutt]

Thanks @jonadaly! If you had to pick two, which would you drop?

[jonadaly]

I think I'd nominate superluminal, and maybe luminant for the second one

[adamhoffstein]

What about pulsar? It's space related? Fast and easy to say.

[Goldziher]

https://pypi.org/project/pulsar/

[metaperl]

Easy to type should also come into play --- superluminal?? are you kidding me.

[metaperl]

This module is not related to space or the solar system. I see no reason to seek a name related to space, the stars or the solar system.

[peterschutt]

Hey @metaperl, thanks for your input here. We did a poll of contributors and maintainers, and the majority simply wanted to leave the name as "starlite".

[infohash]

some people find the similarity to Starlette confusing and difficult.

Shouldn't we first check whether it's the minority or the majority who gets confused with the name? I won't bother if it's only a subset of users. They will eventually get used to it. Name changing is a huge decision that will impact the popularity growth rate for some time. Unless we have enough analytics that justifies name changing, I don't agree with moving from already a good name to another. I would rather work on recreating its logo.

[Goldziher]

sure, you can post to reddit to ask -- or @peterschutt perhaps could?

[infohash]

Reddit seems to be irritated about starlite posts. I think we will have to wait for a while to ask there.

[peterschutt]

Squeaky wheel gets the oil. The easiest thing is to do nothing, but if we are going to do it, it will only get harder to do as time wears on.

Lets see what others that are paying attention in here have to say first, and we can relax the dates set in the poll.

[peterschutt]

OK, I've kicked the dates of the poll back a few days.

[Goldziher]

I think we should wait. Yes it's going to be harder the more we wait, but we need more data.

[metaperl]

Why wasnt this poll announced on reddit-python? Regular updates are posted there, yet when something as crucial as name choice is on the menu, we are left in the dark.

[peterschutt]

At the time of doing this, there was a fair bit of blow-back from some in the reddit community about the frequency of posts about starlite. Also, the discussion never reached an advanced state as general consensus was that we should just leave the name alone. Thanks for your input.

[i-Ching]

• The problem of the spelling Starlite is easy to confused with Starnight, Starlight or Starline ....
• In marketing, the name of FastAPI shows a clear meaning: Fast + API.
• Now Starlite is a genuine independent framework. strong enough to live without Starlette. I suggest Starlite to rename StrongAPI.

In future, you will compete with FastAPI in tendering for commerical contracts.

StrongAPI: I read your official documentation including SQLAlchemy, Tortorise, Piccolo ORM plugins and covering Mako and Jinja templates.
Your official supports provide more than FastAPI in SQLAlcehmy ORM and Jinja template only.

What's more, enterpise customers request strong enough api not fast enough api
(That's why Django still popular 67.7k stars in github, I remember that Django has accumulated python web market share more than 10+ years.)

StrongAPI: Now you can sing Cher's song https://youtu.be/S2PWhYAaaFc?t=96 to customers but FastAPI cannot live without Starlette.

Finally I state clearly that I am a Starlette fan and comparing Starlette, Starlite, FastAPI, Sanic, aiohttp, quart and tornado.
I pay attention here because Starlite is rising strong.

[metaperl]

In marketing, the name of FastAPI shows a clear meaning: Fast + API.

Yes, that is a very catchy and appealing name which is directly related to functionality instead of what something is built on. Big win right there.

[gpasq]

What about lodestone? It's magnetic and attractive