Replies: 35 comments 79 replies
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It's not dead, but it's in maintenance mode right now. |
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i'm fan of atom and hope atom never die. |
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It is not possible and it will not happen until the big change. Though if you want to access more information then visit persuasive essay topics higher english |
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Atom is not as active as VSCode but it is not dying any time soon. Out of the modern editors (VSCode, Atom, Sublime, vim, etc.) I would say it is still one of the most active. GitHub has moved resources away from Atom but VSCode relies on many Atom packages, especially grammars. There is a community version of Atom being worked on at https://github.com/atom-community/atom (kind of an Atom v2). It hasn't been released yet but should be much more active when it is. |
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Its no surprise, Microsoft comes in buys <insert company name here>, then starts to extinguish any competitor products/technologies to their own even if they are arguably better/more extensible. Its by no mean a new thing with MS or any other companies, we only matter for these companies by which data they can extract to build their new techs and build profiles on users to sell them into the next gimmick which is hardly any real new anything just lipstick on a gorilla. In the end it doesn't matter, its an editor, they are a dime a dozen better than vscode which to me is not any alternative to Atom. |
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@the-j0k3r Not exactly a fair assessment, Microsoft wanted to buy GitHub, not Atom... Truth be told, then Atom has always been second-priority for GitHub, more for fun perhaps? Because they could? That Microsoft does not want to continue a product identical to a product they already own, and which is, unfortuantly, by all means way more popular then the editor that just came with the company they bought, makes perfect sense. Would you? Would you continue developing a product that you "accidently" got when buying another product, when you already have a product that's used by way more people? Fact is, Microsoft bought GitHub for GitHub, Atom is an editor they are now going to give zero attention and love. But Atom's license is and does allow anyone to simply fork it and continue on their own path, and it is perhaps what we should do? Or someone... Branch it off and continue developing Atom outside of Microsoft's repos (This repo). |
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@fjeddy I did try to fork and breathe some life/updates on Atom, but gosh, it's so horrible! https://mauricio.szabo.link/blog/2022/02/17/the-impossibility-to-maintain-atom/ I am indeed trying to reuse some fragments of the Atom editor in a new project, but it's simply too much work, so it's progressing quite slowly: https://mauricio.szabo.link/blog/2022/03/01/can-i-split-the-atom-and-from-the-parts-generate-another-thing/ |
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@mauricioszabo You and the community would be better off joining forces with the atom community dev @aminya rather than doing everything by yourself. |
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@the-j0k3r Unfortunately, the Atom Community also is giving up (or already gave up). Amin Ya literally told me that he don't see himself continuing Atom development, and even offered to transfer the organization to me. I'm at their discord server, been discussing the whole new idea of the editor there too. |
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Yeah would be great if Github/Microsoft put some extra developers to this project. |
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Atom has become totally unusable in Windows 10. It says it will start after install, but doesn't. It leaves no trace in the program listing. I located the executable and clicked it and nothing happens. I've tried reinstalling after deleting the .atom folder. No luck. I give up. It was nice to have a reasonably usable Julia editor since the only real alternative is VS Code, and I'd rather spend time learning Julia than struggling with VS Code. |
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Neovim is an awesome alternative to VSCode |
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Not sure which version of Windows you are using. I am using Atom on Windows 10 version 21H1 and it works great. |
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Works just fine here. |
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I don't think that I agree that Atom is on "maintenance mode". I was one of the ones that kept saying that "atom is not dead, just nothing new is being done" and such, but I have to admit that if it's not "dead", it's "dying" or "zombie" mode. The forums (this discuss, the original forum, etc) are all silent, questions are not addressed as they were, lots of valid issues are being marked as stale for lack of discussion (some without even a single comment), the build process is not simple and brittle (this is troubling specially because if someone wants to help with Atom, it's already a high bar to jump), etc... As someone that invested lots of time in Atom packages, helping new users, helping package authors, etc, it's quite a sad picture... |
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I'm no programming god, but I really enjoy using Atom for little scripting jobs and web development. Any ideas on ways to help out? |
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I'm not really sure myself. I joined the atom-community discord to see if they want help with something, but it's also quite silent to be honest. As for today, I tried to clone the atom-community repository and run from source. It's harder than it looks, there are A TON of internal packages (instead of using other solutions), the UI framework is ALSO an internal one... I believe the best one could do is make the "impact surface" smaller - use SolidJS instead of atom's etch, change the |
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I'm in it for the long haul, still using Atom 8 hours a day. I wish I had more time/electron skills I'd contribute in some way but it's not my forte. |
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the short answer: yes. |
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Yep! glad to hear that |
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Atom will stay alive as long as there's a community around it. People migrated to VSCode - a closed source (VSCodium and Code-OSS are open, VSCode is not), telemetry-intensive, more limited editor. The Unless someone (or some group) decide to modernize things (make a way to install packages from GitHub directly, for example, or a decentralized way to search for packages), it'll be hard for Atom users. |
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It is already possible to install packages directly from GitHub repos. There is even a version of apm (Atom Package Manager) being worked on to use pnpm so Atom will save space by reusing duplicated dependencies for packages. Atom is not as active as it used to be but it is still very active. |
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Who is responsible for the webpage? Most of the time the webpages is the first page a user visits when getting information about the editor. I know there is https://github.com/atom/atom.io/issues/ but e.g. the Discuss link is broken for a while now. I don't want to change editors 😛 |
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Atom.io pages for packages/themes have no public source code, I'd imagine none do. So there is nothing to do (as a community member looking to doa PR to fix anything) unless bugs are reported directly to GitHub not via any tickets issues and discussions. because mostly they are left to pasture as there isnt a dedicated person/team to handle any of it. |
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A dead project doesn't release updates a few times a year. From RL experience with really actually dead or dying projects, I know Atom is not even in the neighborhood of dead, nor even adjacent to that neighborhood. That's not to say that suddenly it wont be, and if it is @UziTech said it best, the community edition of Atom should indeed be an alternative to this project no matter if this project dies or not. Microsoft make unpopular moves and of course it will favor its own projects over acquired projects that compete directly with its own, that's the nature of the business and hardly anything new in any case. So here is to opensource and being able to fork and continue breathing life into them. |
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Thank you so much! Sometimes I feel like I am the only one who does like neither VSCode nor Sublime. But I do like Atom and work with it almost every day. So thank you for keeping my hopes up! |
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No, you are not alone :) |
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think this is not the right thread for that. And you have to be a bit more specific what kind of help you want. |
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Please edit your message sharing your address and phone numbers is not smart If that is yet another attempt at making jokes, then the joke is on you. |
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I think he answered the thread by replying the notification email, that's why there's personal info... |
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again: please use a different place to ask those questions like stackoverflow. You are posting in a discussion about |
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@m1ga I think you're right, but the trick in most cases I see is that jamming your unrelated questions on a thread with lots of activity will likely get you an answer faster, even if that answer is like yours =) Who was it that said , its better to ask for forgiveness than for permission? |
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I was trying to switch from sublime text and was really looking forward using atom. I have used vscode in the past but the pc I'm working on is slow af. Glad to know there is hope for atom. |
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for me , I think I love atom better, I run a linux machine and have used Sublime, Atom and VSCode, |
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VSCodium.deb is around 80.4 MB Linux side (I have it installed), Atom.deb file is 132MB, VSCode deb installation File is 78.8MB (I would never use VSCode tbh) Atom by far the biggest sized package here, this VSCode bloatware claim above is sound like uninformed nonsense. I still prefer and use Atom, VSCodium is sort of backup for some tasks, because of certain Linters and other nicknacks like editorconfig amongst others in Atom dont work well or at all because developers all fed up with Atom and stop bothering with fixing bugs in their packages or moved to VSCodium/VSCode instead. |
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You can't tell which program has more bloatware comparing their size on disk. It doesn't work like that. Bloatware can be a simple script of 4kb as long as it's making things that the user never requested. |
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The definition of what is bloatware is variant on user to me its both size on disk and useless stuff that could be installed as per user decision, this decision is removed from user by a matter of fact, all of the above Editors have bloatware to the degree the specific user definition is no matter if you agree that size on disk after install is important or not to this definition, one user may like feature A while another dislikes it, doesn't need it so that feature is bloatware for one and not another, so its arbitrary. But alas maybe in 20 years there will finally be some editor that lets you add the features you need at time of install. That is if we haven't wiped each other from the face of the planet by then (its not a matter of if, its a matter of when) and assuming some dystopian future where technology is usable after the fact. In any case, the important discussion is where the future of Atom will lie, is it dead? NO. Is it maintainable by a 3rd party community via fork/rebrand with current 3rd party circumstances, NO! |
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Also the owner of Python and Benefactor for Life Guido Van Rossum was bought by Bill gatez |
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Now I am a bit more worried that the death knell is going to ring for Atom because the latest stable release is 6 months old. Didn't Microsoft promise that they would keep on developing it? I love Atom and use a number of packages with it for my dev env. From what I've read, VSCode isn't a drop-in replacement and some Atom packages or functionality might not exist in the VSCode ecosystem. Like Atom IDE for example I use it and think Atom Community is doing an amazing job. |
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there is no way microsoft should maintain @atom because VScode is a offshoot from visual studio which shows microsoft or represents a pure microsoft product. |
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@mikel-codes MS seems to hate Unix-like OS's VSCode experience on macOS and Linux is awful, never mind the bloatware bundled with it, which is even worse. I hope Google picks up Atom and someone somewhere please get a replacement for github going, becase this has become a social network, doesn't look nor feels like a Git server anymore. |
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gitlab.com is the biggest alternative |
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Atom is open source and anyone could make a branch of it and start their own version or build something new using it as a reference. The only reason for Google to claim it is to hire people to maintain it, and while that would be really cool, it's very wishful thinking. |
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@syrsly Google? What does Google have to do with Atom or GitHub? Was it Wishful thinking that Google should fork and maintain Atom? That will never happen, and the reason being, they would not want to waste man hours auditing the code and re-writing it to suit their coding standards. Google would straight up, if seriously interested in making a competing opensource Editor they would likely write it from scratch using their buzz word coding/scripting language of the week and call it a day. Now what would be likely in my mind, if approached properly with the right company and contacts, To seek sponsorship from Google or other companies (as opposed to individuals) in order to fork it, rebrand (in a way that its clear its not associated with Atom/GitHub even in organization and program name/logos and trademarks) it and maintain it and further develop and support it. @aminya has half a leg up already, just the organization name where Atom is forked and rebranding as above is needed, and seeking sponsorship or a kickstarter of some sort or both) I dont see anything meaningful happening in all seriousness. |
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Atom is not dead it is evolving. Everyone has their own choice. |
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Best wishes that Atom continues to thrive. I've been switching from sublimeText to Atom for years. I can't do without it at ordinary times. But it does worry me that it hasn't been updated for so long. |
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I'm also a huge fan of Atom and use to do all my code dev. I initially fell in love with it when I needed to program in multiple languages and wanted one IDE to rule them all, and Atom with all of it's ecosystem just worked great. It does python, R, Perl, OCaml, Rust, and so much more with all the bells and whistles... |
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Glad 1.59 finally came out, hope they continue development at a better pace. I think they MSoft doesn't realize how many people love and use Atom everyday |
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We don t need MSoft again to lay a finger on this, because it is business and they will make atom worst should they lay hands on it, the goal here is the competition between Atom and VScode. |
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I love Atom but the performance issues was to terrible s oI switched last month to VSC. |
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I haven't had performance issues in a very long time, yes years ago with earlier versions but not now. I dev in python and R using Atom IDE Community plugin stack and language servers. |
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Anyone care to share why they prefer Atom over VSCode? |
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Simplicity, GUI wise... I don't actually modify Atom like a lot of people do, I open it and start writing code. In the early 2000's, I used Dreamweaver, (Omg), before I later migrated to Notepad++, until Atom arrived. To me, Atom is like Notepad++, with focus on the code, not two billion buttons that supposedly code for you. Yet, behind the scenes, it offers a ton of features, if you need them. I just installed VSCode after reading this thread, been a while since the last time, and I gotta say, the entire application still looks like crap (READ: The visuals, it hurts my eyes looking at it) |
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Atom is basically mature and Vscode is maturely basic |
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What is this bullshit? In VSCode you have access to Electron Developer Inspector just like in Atom. Even by the same key shortcut. |
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Well, to be fair @UziTech didn't say you cant access dev tools in vscode, he said it has a more restricted set of apis available. Also since electron uses chrome nonsense, anything using electron that has dev tools available will use the same shortcut. But good luck customizing vscode to the same extent as you can with Atom without having to install something 3rd party |
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Debugging vscode with dev tools doesn't really make sense since extensions don't run in that environment. In Atom extensions have access to everything that you can access in dev tools. |
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Unfortunately, you have to go to Visual Studio, which is a horror. Took me
three tries to get ir working for Julia and it's so complex you'll spend
more of your time learning the editor than your programming language. I can
do without VS.
…On Sun, 13 Mar 2022 at 17:18, NZPRG ***@***.***> wrote:
I was on the Apache JSPWiki team for about a decade, and despite JSP being
considered an outdated technology and the project (in theory) limping along
with the same kinds of death knell sentences I keep hearing about Atom, it
has been continually developed and updated since it was created in 2001.
It's latest release was last month. I use it currently for four online
wikis, and several private local projects. There are a couple of guys
who've been doing the heroic task of keeping things alive, and that's all
it takes to keep a project alive.
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Well, I would not say it's dead but it's mostly in maintenance mode. It's in a usable state (more than the usable state it works perfectly fine). It lacks the hype that it used to have but that doesn't mean it's dead. Look at sublime, its development slowed down and its market share is going down but it's not dead and is not close to death. The only thing is that a lot of things that atom does, vscode does better but vscode lacks the charm that atom has. As long as vscode does not implement what atom's charm is. Atom will not be dead. |
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I hate vscode. Couldn't even get it to work the first two times. Then, you
spend sooo much time on the VSCode learning curve you don't learn what you
want to. I don't need a top-end developer's program. I'm just using my
language to learn some math. I think it stinks that it's now virtually the
only option that is being developed.
…On Sun, 20 Mar 2022 at 18:48, Demir Dereli ***@***.***> wrote:
Well, I would not say it's dead but it's mostly in maintenance mode. It's
in a usable state (more than the usable state it works perfectly fine). It
lacks the hype that it used to have but that doesn't mean it's dead. Look
at sublime, its development slowed down and its market share is going down
but it's not dead and is not close to death. The only thing is that a lot
of things that atom does, vscode does better but vscode lacks the charm
that atom has. As long as vscode does not implement what atom's charm is.
Atom will not be dead.
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What do people think of Lapce? |
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What is there to check out? At first I thought you linked to the wrong page… then I realized oh no, whoever is developing this takes themselves far too seriously, and also they needed to write a bloody essay on it. Guess what, mature GPU UI frameworks already exist, just leverage those instead of suffering from “not invented here” syndrome. A waitlist? For some initial prototype of a code editor? Why not just do what the rest of the open source community does by doing this in public with a project org and code repos and get people excited that way and wanting to contribute? Where’s their project repository? Jeez it’s for a code editor there’s nothing they will do in this space that is worthy of such secrecy. |
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It might be hard for web developers, but believe it or not, other programming languages also exist! And they also have open-source communities. JavaScript has failed several times to deliver acceptable performance. |
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I agree with you on this. I think here, they meant a Rust GPU UI framework. But I can argue that it is easier to generate/write bindings and wrappers for the C++ frameworks that have been tested for several years than writing something from scratch.
I think they will eventually make it open-source. With the rise of websites like Reddit, HackerNews, etc., where people bash on a project for the rest of their life based on using it for 5 seconds, I can understand that they might prefer working on it until it reaches an acceptable working state, |
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Ok, that was needlessly too rude IMHO. I suppose I don't need to explain why HTML + CSS + Javascript will attract more people than WASI or other languages, plus a whole different code for UI stuff that's only valid for the specific editor. Also, for better or worse, Also, Javascript is probably the second fastest dynamic language that exist today, so I don't know what do you mean by "failed to achieve acceptable performance". Even if we do consider that's not "fast enough" you can run WASM on Javascript, but you can't run Javascript on WASM - which means that the "fast code" could be written in WASM while other things on JS. Also, if you look at the list of languages that compile to WASM, and search for the "stable" ones, you have 19 languages. If you try list of languages that run on JVM, you have more than 30. Even then, it's too few compared to the list that compiles to JS. The fact is, someone that creates a plug-in for VSCode will be able to port and re-use code in another JS editor - as if, if Zed becomes popular, every plugin will need to be written from scratch...
Unfortunately, me too. Atom is still plagued with the old "it's too slow, uses too much memory" nonsense that it plagued the early editions of the editor, and I'm quite sure it was one of the reasons that the project became obsolete. |
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The goal of making good software for the end-users is not to make it desirable for the developers. It's like saying we should throw Cuda and C++ out and rewrite all the games in JavaScript, so web developers can write extensions for them! The end-user doesn't care about this at all. They want a fast smooth game that they can enjoy. It is costly for the game studios because they should pay higher for the developers that know these languages, but it creates huge profits afterwards...
A large portion of the npm packages is compensating for the huge flaws in the language/runtimes. You will see the list shrinking significantly. For the rest, I'd like to see a high-quality npm package that I cannot find among 80,000 Rust packages! |
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Real steele said, ATOM ATOM ATOM ATOM. stand for ATOM side :D |
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It died when the Atom team didn't allow the community to take over. They killed Atom and all the community excitement around it. GitHub's biggest failure. |
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What @aminya? Its open source ffs preventing people under MIT license to fork/modify and republish (after removing any trademarks is legal and allowed. Say the Atom logo and the name associated could be trademarked, i dont know. So you can remove all mentions of atom, including https://github.com/atom-community, decide on a editor name, like.... idk anything, call it muon for all it matters as long as its not a trademark used by anyone else. muon-community, muon editor add a new logo, rebrand the source where Atom name is displayed on the UI and done. Just rebrand and keep going, no one, not GitHub not Microsoft can stop you or anynoe to exercise the rights of the MIT or other opensource licenses, as long as no trademarks etc are infringed or that you dont associate the new project with the previous. If they do try to stop you after removing trademarked content, see these guys https://sfconservancy.org/ |
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This is more than a licensing issue. |
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I agree with what @aminya says, even in open source there’s really no free lunch. Projects that are big enough do need some sponsorship or a core set of devs/maints from the community who have the time drive the project forward. |
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@aminya @hermidalc indeed, one man band projects and especially something of this magnitude, is indeed a huge burden. Sadly, you need traction and an active community of people who can both make pull requests for various reasons and maybe funding if you plan on cover development costs. I always found, that, mostly everyone is very keen on using projects and never contribute in any way, neither to community nor as a sponsor/patron and would rather switch to using other projects than be bothered with any of it. All my projects are 100% unfunded and rare is the one which ever had any active community members that did anything for it but open bug reports, the small exception was terminus (a terminal for atom) and @UziTech helped a lot, project is now archived due to lack of time, necessary level of skills from my part, and needed a major rework. But like an idiot, I continue to contribute to all projects I use (less these days) and still unfunded, heck I dont even have a way to get any funds. So yea, burned out, I hear your pain. |
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Many do contribute though not necessarily with PRs but creating or contributing to issues and doing troubleshooting. I think that is good enough because honestly we have our own projects and other communities we are part of where we contribute. The IDE is like an appliance, email, etc, to me and I just need it to work and work well so I can use it do do what I need to for my own work and communities. The same could he said for programming languages, the vast majority need it to function properly and have features but aren’t making PRs. That’s ok it shouldn’t be expected. |
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and others
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I'm a big fan of Atom, I've written extensions for it (which I subsequently retired).
Microsoft which owns GitHub does have Visual Studio Code as a competing product, and after the recent Codespaces announcement which only refers to Visual Studio Code and not Atom, I went back, and yes Copilot is the same. Then the Atom website has the Discuss link with cert errors.
The latest stable release of Atom is currently 16 days old at this point, which isn't old at all.
But if not dead it feels poorly supported by GitHub?
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